rialian: Posting it up here so it is not lost...(grin)

Rialian (

rialian) wrote,
@ 2004-04-05 22:15:00

Current music:

Nightwish - Over the Hills And Far Away

Posting it up here so it is not lost...(grin)
===Someone has captured a bit I was trying to figure out the best way to phrase this sentiment...and thus I use the might of copy/paste and bring it up from comments and up to this point..(original thread HERE)
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
kalwein wrote,

Ruminations on 'Kin & Thresholds
Way back, during Thresholds I, and the other early Thresholds, there were many things that were avidly discussed by all (sometimes while thoroughly soaked by rain, esp. that first year). One of the things that was much discussed, with a good deal of reverence and excitement, was the idea that we were holding a gather on was a fairly rare commodity: a patch of ground specifically dedicated to keeping out mundanity. A space dedicated as being separate from mainstream society and dedicated to a meme that says that all spirituality/energetic workings etc. (that was so unwelcome and essentially homeless in most of modern day America) are welcome.

Four Quarters Farm is a SANCTUARY. In intent, in spirit and in Law. It's more or less run by Oren, who will tell you it is a non-denominational, Earth-Religion centered sanctuary.

The very term "Sanctuary" holds deep meanings, I believe, for those of us who started this thing. It holds meaning of being a safe place and of being a sacred space. Sacred, means "held apart from daily life," not necessarily sacred to some deity. In essence, 4QF has been built with the intent and is nurtured with the theme of providing a respite from the mundanity and banality that many of us may have felt slowly sucking away at our vitality.

This is precisely what we were seeking, originally. A place where it would be safe to gather, to meet, to explore, to relax, to re-energize, to recharge, to be ourselves, to connect, to disconnect, to be alone, to be together, to be... so many things. Four Quarters Farm was in perfect resonance and attunement. Here, one could let go of much of the effort required to keep the rest of mundanity's reality at bay. Here, we were far more welcome than those who voluntarily stunted their inner spirits, allowing gray realities to wash away their loves and lives. They were welcome, too, and we would help them where we could; but they were not allowed to hurt us, they had to approach with open mind, and with open hearts.

Other places then 4QF could fill this function, but not many. Until we make them.

So we all extended our arms and hearts to those we knew, anxious to share with those we knew needed and would appreciate such a jewel. Realign continued in his role as caretaker and facilitator, and we all brought new people with us. More were found, and we were well content, for we had reason. All signs were that there were more of us, who saw the worth and merit of what was being built.

Yet...

With time some things have worn away, some memories faded. Some are not as bright-eyed, some have died. Some perhaps are bitter and many have cried. Yet ,I ask us all not to forget what we have done and why.

Yes, change will come, and we should be right glad of it. Yet:

If we change, let it be to meet some new challenge, not to shirk from one,
If we must fight let it be for light and love and not with knives in backs and serpent's tongues.
If we must be children, let it be with awe and wonder, alongside those fits and sulks.
If we must leave, let it be with songs in our hearts and laughter in our souls.

Thresholds is consecrated, sacred space indeed. It is sacred to our Dreams. I pray that we be worthy of it.

(Post a new comment)

	clawfoot 2004-04-05 08:08 pm UTC (link)
	Very well-said. (Reply to this)

	kali_ma 2004-04-05 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	It is my goal for my home to be a sanctuary. (Reply to this)

I will state my thoughts plainly

aodhfionn
2004-04-06 01:57 am UTC (link)

What is described here and the sentiments offered are wonderful and awe-inspiring.

This sounds exactly like something I've searched for most of my life.

I've heard it before

Some of the most dangerous and soul killing places I have been in have been described this way to me by others. Some of the actions done to me with the least respect and concern for me were done out of supposed love.

It is possible that Thresholds is different. It may actually embody an ideal and send it forth, but it cannot do this simply by existing.

This type of thing takes, work, commitment, and openness. It also takes awareness that problems can arise, and it takes enough forethought to consider ways to deal with those problems. In short, it takes the very concepts that you have been speaking on recently. Unfortunately, the people involved in other places said those things, too.

I've never seen the ideal. I've never seen a true sanctuary. I hope this is one, but I may never know because I'm not hearing what I want to hear. There are two things I'm listening for.

The first thing is something I've never heard before. Since I've never heard it before, I have no way of knowing what it is I'm listening for, but like the piper in the woods, I think I'll know the tune when I hear it.

The second, since the first might be impossible, is something that tells me that coming to find out in person is safe. Assurances of hearth and sanctuary are lovely. So are laws against murder. People are still killed, and places claiming to be hearths and sanctuaries can still turn out to be anything but.

I am tired.

I am tired of friends who turn on you when your agenda is not to adoringly support theirs without hesitation, question, or concern for your own needs and beliefs.

I am tired of leaders and guides who think there is only one way to do something and that those who try another are deficient or corrupt.

I am tired of being treated as though I caused a problem simply because I saw it and said something.

I'm tired of thinking I've found a home only to find out that it isn't a home for me.

I am not a follower. I watch, I question, I talk to people when I have concerns, or I try. I expect the respect of being talked to in return and not dismissed or ignored much less attacked outright for bringing it up, and all of these have happened.

I've never met a person who didn't need, at some point, to have a group to strengthen them or give them hope or rejuvenate their sense of purpose. I haven't had a group like that... in a very long time if ever.

I have met a lot of good people who have been burned, bloodied, and cast out by groups that those who have not been treated that way would never believe it of. I have seen many of them shattered and broken.

I am simply tired.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly draerendi 2004-04-06 04:06 am UTC (link)
	blinking Who are you and why do you sound like me? Wow. shaking head (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly aodhfionn 2004-04-06 10:01 pm UTC (link)
	We've almost talked a few times. Not in person, though. We might have a lot in common since, unless I'm making a misconnection, we live in the same state. I've tried to arrange things to come to your gather-like event and just not managed it. Perhaps email? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly draerendi 2004-04-07 02:05 am UTC (link)
	You can email me at firefen@world-net.net or firefen@yahoo.com Yes I do think we should talk. Most definitly. :) I will be out of town from thursday to monday so if you don't hear from me be patient. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

dancinglights
2004-04-06 07:26 am UTC (link)

I'm not hearing what I want to hear

I doubt I'll be able to tell you what you want to hear, either. I don't think anybody will, if you don't know what it is and are too tired to listen. I don't know how to say that without sounding bitchy to someone I don't even know, but I swear it isn't meant that way.

All I can say is that as for being tired of never finding a home "for me", for never finding that group, in part because of a non-follower, more confrontational nature -- that sounds mighty, mighty familiar. To me and everyone else that's become a part of our rowdy tribal lot that exists outside of, yet owes its existence in total, to a few Thresholds. We may get crap for our party atmosphere, but we party 'cause we're happy to have a rare weekend in our lives together, safe, and in such a place. I doubt an admission of such from each of the twenty or so of us (there were three, a few years ago), or from everyone involved outside our crew could help that feeling, but I figure I ought to try and share that this is the *only* place a few of us have found a sanctuary that's sanctuary enough to deal with us back. Maybe the fact that the Farm and Thresholds itself have no real leaders is part of it all. There are those that organise, those that watch the land, those that run events for others, but don't serve as leaders for any of us. There is a main ritual... it's a collaborative-effort non-denominational cat-herding exercise and most people don't even go.

In any case, it's the one place I go to not be tired anymore.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

aodhfionn
2004-04-06 09:52 pm UTC (link)

I don't know how to say that without sounding bitchy to someone I don't even know, but I swear it isn't meant that way.

I understand both sentiments. I take no offense. :-)

I doubt I'll be able to tell you what you want to hear, either. I don't think anybody will, if you don't know what it is and are too tired to listen.

I said I was listening for two things, and I accepted that one of those might be impossible because I didn't know what it was I was listening for. I am still listening. I might be tired, but I never said I was too tired to listen. If I was too tired to listen, I wouldn't have energy to have cared enough to post this comment.

I figure I ought to try and share that this is the *only* place a few of us have found a sanctuary that's sanctuary enough to deal with us back.

This is something that makes me feel good. At the moment, I can't think of a better way to phrase it, but I find it somewhat comforting of an idea.

Maybe the fact that the Farm and Thresholds itself have no real leaders is part of it all.

A few entries back, Rialian stated a willingness to refer to Thresholds as "Rialian's Hearth" (granted, along with a reluctance to do so). That willingness set off some quiet alarm bells, when no one else involved with Thresholds voiced anything but support for the idea, those bells got louder.

To me, that signifies proprietorship at the very least, and someone who has proprietorship is "in charge" and a de-facto leader. I do know the difference between leader, organizer, and spokesperson. I also know that they are often wrapped up in the same person. I am also not saying that being or having a leader is a bad thing. Leaders can be necessary and can help to get things done that would not otherwise be done. Guides, a slightly different role, fulfill many of the same purposes. My goal is to clarify as much as possible.

I am willing to accept that you believe there are no leaders at Thresholds, but what I'm hearing says something different.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

draerendi
2004-04-07 02:25 am UTC (link)

Rialian is in charge. It is his back yard so to speak not that he makes the rules but in the end the people at the farm hold him responsible for every one that comes to his gather. You have to have some guide lines for the sake of all present. He is the host so in a way it is a hearth as much as you would be invited to some one's home. As for leader in the sense that I am getting from you I don't see it coming from Rialian. So leader/spokesman/organizer and host are what it is, not Boss. I think that no one spoke up because most of us know him personally and how he does things...we are not worried.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

dancinglights
2004-04-07 07:06 am UTC (link)

mm.. some of what I said the other day did come out a bit more snippy than intended, even with the warnings. Pardon; life has been kicking my ass lately, and it sort of seeps through. I've heard statements like your original comment both from the genuinely bright, good, well-meaning, and tired, and from whiny drama-heads who perceive themselves as the former. When I'm not so tired myself, I give people the benefit of probably being the former. When I'm tired, I'm bitter too. I'm a little less tired today?

Anyhow.. Rialian is a leader there inasmuch as someone has to minimally organise, and someone has to handle the finances and talk to the nomnitave landowners. He tries to set the tone of the gather and make sure that people who seriously disrespect either the land, or the idea of sanctuary for the gather (and yes, I'm just appropriating terms out of recent conversation for the last bit, though it's an idea that's been in place for years now), don't *want* to be there and ruin it for the rest of us. I suppose, in a way, that is being the leader.

And, of course, us being contrary cats to be herded, since he is, in any way whatsoever, "the leader", once our registration is paid, our tents set up and any meal provisions discussed, we completely ignore him ;).

Cambodia keeps being brought up in Thresholds commentary as another "hearth", both in warning and celebration because we're apparently the most objectionable, loud, obnoxious, and dionysian group there. We don't really have any leaders, though we do seem to have people that organise different aspects of the technicalities involved in a gather, and a few guide sorts that have say based on the fact that they know if they decide anything objectionable, they'll be ignored or harassed and thus undermined. I don't know *what* that counts as. Other groups, like Clan Ten have more structure, and it works for them. Others don't. I think what I was trying to say is that it's such a mishmosh that there is no solid leader. There's no one that everyone actually listens to, or even generally follows the direction of.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

crisses
2004-04-08 09:16 am UTC (link)

Correction: Rialian never stated anything about his own hearth. He quoted Kalwein, whom I know rather well in person to be a separate distinct obvious entity from Rialian...having known him for 10 years and dragged him personally to the first Thresholds ;)

During Thresholds, i will buy that there is at least some NOMINAL "ownership" of the group's main hearth to the man that organized and essentially foots the outlay for the bill of the gathering. Cloisters of kinfolk in their own camping um...nodes...have their own private hearths, or semi-private as it were -- last year we were specifically asked to allow our hearths to be open, to focus on the energetics of having an open hearth, to welcome people to sup with us if they were passing by, etc. My personal area kept to that, rather than to a closed hearth ideal.

In the same manner, 4QF gives nominal "ownership" of "hearth" to Orren, who runs the church along with the (perhaps even equal) help of a great many other people, and is essentially a very minor stable presence there in that he's been there since the first year we gathered there. If he leaves, the church is quite likely to continue without him...but he might take a little of it's spirit, and a whole lot of the stable workforce, with him. I think the organizer of a gather does a lot to influence the gather energetics -- who it attracts, who it does not, who they make feel welcome, and who they make (purposefully or not) feel excluded. Everyone makes the gather, but the first person to sign on is the person(s) who organize it.

If Rialian had stated it was HIS HEARTH, I'd back you up. I haven't heard him say so in my presence. Certainly not in this LJ entry (I've searched both on his name and the word Hearth, and he only posted Kalwein's quote...). Kalwein's post essentially gives nominal ownership to Rialian, which as the catalyst for the gather, I believe is in the proper spirit -- we come to the hearth that Rialian provides. If we don't come, that hearth will lose a great deal of spirit, and by every law of magic, not be the same thing at all.

I don't think we have any particular "leaders" but we have plenty of "leadership" -- we are not organized, but we have organizers...and everyone ought to be their own spokesperson -- nothing pisses me off more than someone speaking on behalf of any subgroup of kin, be that someone speaking on behalf of HOPE (which has happened to the result of crickets and wide eyes) or behalf of all angelics, elves, etc.

I think there are many leaders -- or people with leadership roles -- at thresholds. Some are explicit leaders of their groups and clans, and by way of people giving them that role and that power, and they do not always shed that role upon entering the sanctuary. Some are more covert and without even noticing that people are hanging on their every word. Some of us are aware that people are hanging on their word and it scares the living daylights out of them.

However, you find that type of leadership in the community all over the place. The owner of a particular list sets rules and moderation guidelines for the list, and technically runs a commodity in the community. The owner of a website (rialian.com, OKN, Kinhost.org, whatever...) is the same thing. WtT is no different...Rialian has final yay or nay say on who enters the sancturary. He can choose whether to advertise or have a private by-invite-only gather. He has chosen his particular guidelines and rules according to what he feels is right for what he organizes and protects, and that is his right, and by attending, we give our approval to those guidelines. Just like voting republican or democratic -- It Means Something.

And I'm ok with that.

The Crisses

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly aodhfionn 2004-04-08 01:19 pm UTC (link)
	The post I was refering to is the one linked to at the beginning of the post these comments are on. Although, I read it differently now and cannot say for certain whether it is I or the entry that has changed or both. All of the comments here have given me a lot to chew on. I'm trying to decide how much of it tastes like foot before I say anything else. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

draerendi
2004-04-07 02:16 am UTC (link)

I always found the party atmosphere rather entertaining even if I don't join in. :)
Actually for me it is the idea that you don't have a person to explore ideas with...sometimes you need that other person of like mind. But more to the point when you reach a certain point you also crave the more solitary thing too. Thresholds is not always feasible both monetarily and time wise. That makes distance a problem for regular connections. Like Rialian I am looking for certain connections only being a loner it is harder to make them. *grin* I wish at times I lived closer to everyone up there but I know that is not the answer. I am where I need to be even if it seems more often than not that I am the only one here. So being tired is not always a place but lack of connectedness too. I don't think he is angry so much as frustrated.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

crisses
2004-04-08 09:27 am UTC (link)

Your presence is decidedly missed. I know someone who really ought to meet you, in all your crotchityness and fire-breathingness. It's a demon resident in someone's body who is having a little um...reluctance and trouble coming to terms with "Am I really a demon or just a bullshit artist?" -- you'd love his scepticism, candor and in-your-faceness, and he'd love yours as well. You've been a terrific influence on me in that way, as well -- and I am the more blessed for WtT having given a venue to meet with you in person.

*love & hugs*

The Crisses

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly draerendi 2004-04-13 03:24 pm UTC (link)
	You are very sweet. :)I am working at being there next year. It will be an event for surprises I think. good ones. Ah but first I have to get there yes? grin (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly ahril 2004-04-06 08:39 am UTC (link)
	I share many of these sentiments as well. I continue to listen and watch also. I grew tired several years ago and retreated. What it is that now stirs me out into the open once more I do not know exactly. As you say, I'll know the tune when I hear it. Thanks for posting this. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I will state my thoughts plainly aodhfionn 2004-04-06 09:37 pm UTC (link)
	You're welcome, and thank you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I will state my thoughts plainly

crisses
2004-04-08 08:49 am UTC (link)

*sigh*

No group on earth, in sky, on sea or land will every be able to fulfill everyone's needs.

Every group has, by the very act of attempting to include, accidentally (or on purpose) excluded someone or something. Some are exclusive and exclusionary by their very nature. Some attempt to be open minded -- but then you're going to probably find that they're going to exclude the closed minded just by their very open-mindedness.

I think this is a rule of social organization.

The best we can do is to understand when someone walks away, disagrees, or says that something is NOT for them.

I've pissed people off, and on a couple of occasions I've found a few people rather worthy of being pissed on (HOPE and Tabris directly come to mind, and I got to tell Th'elf my mind on a few occasions although he'd never personally done ME direct harm nor acted outside of what I felt was acceptable in my own personal presence -- I specifically spoke my mind to him about his behavior on my list and my opinion of his beliefs and ethics (if that's what they're called). I have met him twice in person, finally, and my online baggage has thusfar stayed online where it belongs.).

And I think you know I speak my own mind, and I'm becoming *quite* sensitive to someone attempting to wear me as a hand puppet, and I will put up resistance.

That said: I've been to 5 of 6 prior Thresholds, and I cannot personally recommend that it is the perfect-for-everykin face-to-face coming out forum. If one likes camping, feels comfortable out-of-doors, and with some care and attention to one's whereabouts at the gather, and who one spends one's time with, however, I can say with quite a lot of certainty that I can recommend no other gathering any better.

Mind you, it's the only such gathering I've been to. I haven't been to any other otherkin camping-based gatherings. A few are far smaller attendance, if that's more to your liking. However, FourQuartersFarm itself is a boon, being, as Kalwein has pointed out, a sanctuary in itself...

In other words, I think I'm talking mostly out of my a$$, but that in-general, WtT is safe enough, but don't think you don't have to watch your back!

The Crisses

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	rubyhatchling 2004-04-06 07:59 pm UTC (link)
	curls up in the fairy carrin, or basking in the sun in the fields... prrrrs happly and safely (Reply to this)

	dancinglights 2004-04-07 07:17 am UTC (link)
	whisper Thresholds 7: sanctuary ? wanders off (Reply to this)

Errata & Plausible Corrections

crisses
2004-04-08 07:24 am UTC (link)

Ok: someone has actually GOTTEN me to post on LiveJournal. All LJ enthusiasts can now rejoice.

I hate LJ. I hate polticing and b.s., rumormonging and backstabbing and all the like. In the interest of honesty and openness, I note the following:

1) Spell checkers are evil. Rialian became "Realign" (in "Realign continued in his role as caretaker and facilitator...") -- at least Rialian did not become "Reality" :)

2) During WtT1 there was much less trust, much more paranoia. We were tentatively eeking sacredness out of the world fabric and -- to the sensitivities of a majority of the attendees -- it was trampled at the upper campfire when the New Moon celebration entered our drum & dance and whatever-you-call-it-when-elves*-let-loose-ness with their goddess invoking, and disheartened kin slunk off to the North Crook campfire and human-bashed. I walked down there after a while and walked in on a number of kin (who shall remain nameless) who were rather um...unpleasantly trouncing humanity in general and those particular wiccans in specific for trouncing their good time, making it unsafe.

3) Rain...Yes, it rained. I particularly remember Thresholds 1 as having been The Early Friday Morning Rain -- I believe people slept in. No soggy otherkin for the first -- and last -- time. It rained before 10 or 11 am. WtT 2 started the soggy kin rains...

All that said, the blatant and plain sentiment is a good one. I'm not sure it will be achieved by counterwarfare, inbreeding or limiting who attends. Quite frankly, I'm outside the politicing that is being hinted at behind obscuring words and heavy veils, and if anyone wants to enlighten me as to whom or what group is causing the problems that have inspired Rialian's theme at Thresholds this year, it would be a greater comfort to me. Is it about Th'Elf? Is it about House Kheperu? Is it about someone or someones else? Perhaps I see the world through rose colored glasses, perhaps I am oblivious, perhaps if I really want to know I have to read the um -- insightful? -- postings of live journalists everywhere? I only followed this link because it was somehow pertinent to the theme of Thresholds this year, which I already find somewhat alarming. A wolf in sheep's clothing? The surface looks wonderful, but the veiled implications forbode disaster to my all-too-trusting and all-too-innocent?naieve? well, anti-political anyway, mind(s).

By the way, I missed WtT 5 -- so if it's WtT 5 related, which I note is the year that Th'elf caused certain issues -- I can see a problem. Otherwise, I've seen much more PERSONAL-level drama at WtT's (1-4+6) than public or gathering-related drama (sans perhaps the Wicca->Kin issue at WtT1). Maybe I missed stuff because I was too busy handling personal-level drama, or at the last WtT (6) handling my own healing of WtT1-4 dramash!t, wishing the river would calm down, and watching my son. People can write me privately if they don't want to air the real story in public, that's fine...but I'm not much of a person (maybe because I'm people? LOL) to keep my opinions or insights to myselves.

Blessings, Shade & Sweet Water, and please Walk in Beauty,

The Crisses

* elves and other kin, but that doesn't fit as well. The gathering was quite elf-heavy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Errata & Plausible Corrections

rialian
2004-04-08 05:11 pm UTC (link)

1) Spell checkers are evil. Rialian became "Realign" (in "Realign continued in his role as caretaker and facilitator...") -- at least Rialian did not become "Reality" :)

===Depends on the spellchecker. I think both "corrections" would be accurate...(grin)

During WtT1 there was much less trust, much more paranoia.

===I would have to disagree, but I tend to have different perceptions. I do know that you said that you almost did not come out of a paranoia that people would not accept a multiple/host...so that may color your perceptions of the gather.

I walked down there after a while and walked in on a number of kin (who shall remain nameless) who were rather um...

===Probably for the best to do so...(grins) I do recall some of that, and I am well aware of how people's memories can be in regards to their own parts in conversations. I am all for accountability...but in some ways I do endeavor to be kind.

===The overall focus on sanctuary has not been invoked by any one event, but more looking at an overall picture of things...and really deciding to get back to some of the stuff that a number of us think of as important.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Errata & Plausible Corrections

kalwein
2004-04-09 02:07 pm UTC (link)

>2) During WtT1 there was much less trust, much more paranoia.....it was trampled at the upper campfire when the New Moon celebration entered ... disheartened kin slunk off to the North Crook campfire and human-bashed....

I'm not sure that the laying aside of paranoid fears in attending a first such gather,with people you do not know, in the middle of the woods, is not an act of equal or greater trust than going somewhere where you have been safe before, with people who have been vouched for by friends. Perhaps there was greater paranoia..but if so, I'd have to say there was at least equal trust.

I agree re: the circle. When the other folks entered the circle, I recall that the group split into two smaller groups, some interested in staying in the drum-circle, others more focused on quieter camp fireside activities. Assimilative AND exclusionary reactions. Nothing's changed ;)

I do recall that there were several people engaged in a constructive discussion with the bashers.

>3) Rain...Yes, it rained. I particularly remember Thresholds 1 as having been The Early >Friday Morning Rain -- I believe people slept in. No soggy otherkin for the first -- and >last -- time. It rained before 10 or 11 am. WtT 2 started the soggy kin rains...

I remember soggily tramping through the grass and meeting up with one or two other folks doing the same. No one was complaining about it. We were walking through it voluntarily. Yes, the weather did clear up, and yet it's true that the following year was soggier. What I can't remember is if it was WTT 1 or 2 that we tried to dry clothing via a clothes line from one tree branch to another.. it didn't work due to humidity. Perhaps the sogginess I remember was more due to humidity than rain...

Inclined to say to think it was Thresholds I, because I didn't yet have the insane 13 foot tall pavilion tent..

>All that said, the blatant and plain sentiment is a good one. I'm not sure it will be >achieved by counterwarfare, inbreeding or limiting who attends. Quite frankly, I'm outside >the politicing that is being hinted at behind obscuring words and heavy veils,.......

I'm sure it *WON'T* be achieved by counterwarfare, inbreeding or limiting who attends. That wasn't the point. This was an awareness raising thread.

I think the words are generally plain enough. Where I did not mention names, I did so intentionally, choosing not to focus on individual people or groups, because I don't SEE it as a problem with such. I see it far more as the common issues with the intermingling of different points of view. Sometimes folks need a reminder to play nice. I chose a more spiritual/emotional mode of expression for my prior commentary. It's how I feel about it, and what I saw and experienced. Your mileage may vary.

> Is it about Th'Elf? Is it about House Kheperu? ..............The surface looks wonderful,

I don't think it's about anything or anyone in particular. I think it's mostly about ensuring there is a safe space at thresholds, and esuring that folks are aware that there are *some*, though minimal, expectations and underlying assumptions. A whole lot of that has never been discussed or made clear to folks who started attending in the last year or two. Given the rate of growth that's occuring, that could be a big mistake.

There an etiquette in a place that is a sanctuary that is not neccesarily present in a place that is a party, a convention or club. They are not inherently incompatible, but folks should be aware of the underlying expectations.

For communication and clarity, these things should be spelled out in writing. The person who does that will be an automatic magnet for character attacks/assassinations, angry contradictions, and other sorts of negative energies/responses. That might create more nasty politics. Why bother? *My* initial post on this topic is intended to remind us all of who we were and what we wanted. I can only be one lens, certainly. Your recollections and others as well are welcome. Hmm.. perhaps a WTT page... Recollections.

The least we can do is point out where we've been. We've yet to see where people want to go. I would hope we'd all build on the foundation of where we have been.

Different <> Worse. Worse = Worse.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Errata & Plausible Corrections

draerendi
2004-04-13 03:39 pm UTC (link)

*giggle* I think that every Thresholds I have attended it has rained at leat one or two of those days. Seems that maybe we need a drenching once in a while. With larger gatherings you need rules of conduct to ensure there is common respect for others. If said expectaions are presented you can not say you did not know. A recollections page would definitly be a must read.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

rain

dancinglights
2004-04-14 07:55 pm UTC (link)

The last time I moved apartments, I purchased quite a few rainproof storage tubs instead of boxen. Because, for three Thresholds straight, everything I owned got soaked by the end. Last year, some of it survived. This year, more tubs....

and yes, I'd very much like to see pages like that, and wouldn't mind coming up with some stuff to go on them, if it's at all collaborative and i've got time by then.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Username:		Create an Account Forgot your login or password? Login w/ OpenID
Password:
	Remember Me
	English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…

About

Help

Get Involved

Legal

Store

LJ Labs